There's a new subwoofer in town

Ron-P

It's done, just finished up an hour ago. Here are some pics of the installation of 2-3"x17" flared ports.


Here are the ports getting glued together.


Rough cut holes for the ports.


One port installed, one more to go.


A shot of the inside of the beast before the Tempest goes back in.



It is an entirely new subwoofer. The bass is nothing short of amazing, super tight and clean, no boomyness what-so-ever. The sealed design gave out some fairly nasty boomyness in the new room and because of that I was unable to turn it up. Now, it does nothing but produce vibrations.

I put in some Fellowship of the Rings EE (dts), the cave troll and the Mines of Moria scenes are out-f'ing-standing.. It was like I was moving in my seat the vibrations were so strong. Every part of my body was vibrating (had to stop and check my shorts;) ). Yet what is so amazing is no boomyness. I had a grin from ear to ear. Looks like I will not need that 12" Shiva sonosub afterall.

I have not run AVIA yet and will do so tomorrow (hopefully), out of time today. I'll be back later to post more results later. Gotta get ready to go out to dinner.

Doc, I cannot thank you enough for your help. It's is an entirely new subwoofer.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

Ron:

I'm so glad the project worked out so well. You definitely did a quality installation, and using flares on both ends looks majorly cool and will definitely help reduce/eliminate port noise.

The elimination of the boomy peak was a pleasant surprise! I thought it was room induced, but it quite possibly could have been the sealed sub itself.

The sub should have an F3 of around 17 Hz and also should now be capable of really belting out some serious SPL.

You will be hearing many of your DVDs for the "first" time with this "new" sub.

Congratulations - you've just become a "subhuman". :-)

Doc

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

eh...that driver looks a el of alot like the M&K drivers without the M&K symbol and junk on it...eh?

goingganzo

that is cool did the ports come with the mounting holes? my ports cost me 4.50 each. 1.09 for each end 75 cents for each culping, and 5 bucks for a 8 foot piece of 4 in thinwall pvc. i am using sicilone to atach the port to the box. i more queston is how do you atach more than 1 pic in a post?
thanks

Dr. Spec

Ron:

Do you still have the DD 5.1 theatrical version of LOTR-FOTR? Since you have now tamed your boominess, I think you might find that version extraordinarily impressive on your Tempest Hurricane.

At the same master volume setting, the DD 5.1 theatrical LFE channel is mastered 4 dB louder than the DTS EE version, and 2 dB louder than the DD EE version. Yes, the DTS version has slightly tighter bass, but all three versions are still excellent bass quality.

But the original DD 5.1 is KING in terms of sheer output. I'd like to hear your impression of that DVD with the new sub.

DarqueKnight

Excellent!!!

When you have the time, would you give us the specifics on the time, cost, and tools needed to complete the project?

goingganzo

i can help here. i bult a sono tube sub but i got a 2 subs instead of 1 so i had to scarp it.
you need:
sonotube $5-8 a foot
mdfb $20 4X8 sheet of 3/4 in
sub of choice $105-205 $150 for tempest $205 for av15
amp $124 parts evpress 250 wat
ports $15-$17 each or make them your self for $5 each
drill
roughter or jug saw
glew
screws
cauck
polly fill
2x2 braceing
paint
speaker wire
imput terminal
clamps

around $300-$450 depending on how much tools and meteral you have.


if any one wants my sono tube you can have it for wht i payed for the tube. it is allmost finishedall it needs is a sub and a input cup and cloth to wrap the tube.

Ron-P

using flares on both ends looks majorly cool and will definitely help reduce/eliminate port noise.

From the testing so far, I cannot detect any port noise...none.

The sub should have an F3 of around 17 Hz and also should now be capable of really belting out some serious SPL.

She is belting out some serious SPL, that's for sure. As for the F3 at 17Hz, I will run some AVIA tonight.

that is cool did the ports come with the mounting holes?.....i more queston is how do you atach more than 1 pic in a post?

Yes, the ports came pre-drilled with the holes. As for pics in a post, just add as many

How much did that cost you, all together?

Materials Costs
250w Plate Amp: ($146.75)
Tempest: ($152.50)
Sonotube: ($25.30)
4x8 sheet MDF: ($21.49)
Misc. Material: ($50.00)
2 Ports: ($38.00)

Total: ($434.00)

It took a weekend to build, probably about 10 hours or so. A jig saw, circular saw, drill, is about all the major tools needed. If you want to do a real fancy job a router would work well for recessing the driver and ports. For my first one, I did not bother, plus my theater room is all black so it does not need to look pretty.

Here, http://members.tripod.com/~terryctheater/shivaphotoalbum/page12.html is where I got started. The DIY section of the Hometheaterforum is a great place to start, there are tons of threads on the subject.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

Ron, I'm sure the sub will spec out fine. Actually, with typical room reinforcement, I'm expecting it to dig even a smidge deeper than the T/S parameters would suggest. Don't forget to apply the RS meter corrections to your data - that thing is way off down super low.

What I'd really like to hear is more of your subjective opinions on different bass intensive movies. Is this do-able?

Ron-P

At 20Hz, where AVIA stops, I am showing 92.5db (correction added). The rig is calibrated to 75db. Only 2 problem areas, a 2db spike from 47-44Hz. and a 2 db drop from 35Hz to 31Hz and then she is 92.5db right down until AVIA cuts off.

I need to download that freq. sweep file and burn it so I can go beyond 20Hz. The sub shows no signs of rolling off.

What I'd really like to hear is more of your subjective opinions on different bass intensive movies. Is this do-able?

Any movies you had in mind?

From the few scenes I've re-watched in Signs and LotR I have noticed a much cleaner sound track and bass where there was no bass before. The bass is so nice and clean it is amazing.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

Wow! That is a VERY flat in room FR. To stay within +/- 2 dB from 50-20 Hz is outstanding without EQ or FD.

The 1/12 octave FR sweep will be very telling. It's a bit of work to plot it manually, but it's worth it. Unzip that file I sent you (no need to download from the internet if it went through OK on e-mail) and burn all 41 files to a CD. I burned mine so file #1 was the 100 Hz tone, and file #2 was the 10 Hz tone, and then it goes up in order after that. You'll see that from the Excel spreadsheet I also sent.

This way you can set your master volume so you get 80 dB at the 100 Hz tone first (which will be mostly from the mains), and then let it run the sweep after that.

If you are in the 92-93 dB range from 50-20 Hz, and the mains/surrounds are only at 75 dB, it sounds as if your sub is now running VERY hot, probably due to the huge increase in efficiency created by venting.

You need to make sure the mains/surrounds and the sub are close in volume on the AVIA calibration test tones. As long as you're recalibrating, you might as well set your LFE level on your Marantz pre-out to around -3 to avoid LFE signal compression. Then run your calibration tones on all your speaks and the sub. Your sub should be no more that 2-3 dB louder than the other speaks. If it's too loud, drop the volume on the plate amp until it comes into line.

The 1/12 sweep lasts a continuous 410 seconds so playing it too loud due to improper calibration might fry the VC if you are not careful - that's why I only run mine at 80 dB.

Great bass movies?

A. I.: Artificial Intelligence (dts)
Air Force One
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Band of Brothers
Black Hawk Down
Blade II (dts)
Brotherhood of the Wolf
From Hell (dts)
The Haunting (dts)
Jurassic Park III (dts)
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring
The Matrix
Minority Report (dts)
Monsters, Inc.
Pearl Harbor (dts)
Saving Private Ryan (dts)
Star Wars Episode I: Phantom Menace
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Terminator 2 (dts)
Titan A. E. (dts)
Toy Story 2
U-571 (dts)
We Were Soldiers

Doc

Dr. Spec

If I was going to narrow it down to a handful of "must listen" bass DVDs (excluding LOTR-FOTR which you already have demo'd), it would be:

The Haunting (dts) - Creaky Pipes to finale
Jurassic Park III (dts) - Dino Fight
The Matrix - knee smash and Sentinels at finale
Monsters, Inc. - sock explosion and Boo crying
Saving Private Ryan (dts) - opener and bridge tank finale
SWI: PM - pod race and saber duals
SWII: AOTC - opening ship flyover and explosion
Titan A. E. (dts) - ice field and finale
Toy Story 2 - opener and concrete pipe rolling
U-571 (dts) - all depth charges and finale

Many of these scenes are brutal on subwoofers and will quickly separate the men from the boys. There is strong content in the 15-35 Hz range in nearly all of these DVDs. Most "regular" subs won't even try to play half of what's on these discs.

Doc

Doc

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Ron,

Which 250 watt plate amp did you go with?

How is it for music?

I happen to know this answer, so while I'm typing, I'll let you know - Ron - hope you don't get mad me answering for you here.

He is using the Parts Express subwoofer plate amp. This unit is a screamin deal at around $120, but it is really designed for subwoofers only, with all the regular sub high/low level inputs, phase switch, and I even think it has a built in rumble filter. It cranks out like 257W RMS into 4 ohm loads. I have no idea how it would sound for regular music - I think that would be outside of it's normal application.

Ron, that reminds me - if that amp DOES have a built in rumble filter, you will see its effect immediately on the 1/12 octave FR sweep. It will terminate subsonic bass on probably a 24 dB/octave slope below its set point (whatever that is). I suspect it might be set to 15 Hz, but it could be even higher. If your FR takes a very linear and sharp nose-dive below a certain frequency, that's your rumble filter working. I don't think you can disable it on the PE amp, though.

Doc

Ron-P

Wow! That is a VERY flat in room FR. To stay within +/- 2 dB from 50-20 Hz is outstanding without EQ or FD.

Now you know why I am smiling from ear to ear. I was very surprised at this considering what my readings were with the sealed design.

If you are in the 92-93 dB range from 50-20 Hz, and the mains/surrounds are only at 75 dB, it sounds as if your sub is now running VERY hot, probably due to the huge increase in efficiency created by venting.

Yeah, it is running hot, but I was having fun with it, enjoying some impacting bass. I mainly took my time to calibrate the 5 and then started on the sub. Still have much work to do. Needless to say, I am not use to this type of bass and output, it's going to take some time to get dialed in.

Ron - hope you don't get mad me answering for you here.

Not at all. Although, I did land the amp from MCMElectronics.com. It is the same amp, PE was out and MCM had the same price. For the $120 you can't beat the deal. I was playing some Ozzy the other night and the amp works just as well for music as it does for movies. There a great deal.

I am fairly sure it has the filter. I know there are threads over at the HTF on moding the amp with a few capacitors to bypass the filter.

I printed out your list there Doc and will give each track a listen and report back with my thoughts. Just need a little more time calibrating first. The email came through fine and is ready for buring.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

I would definitely NOT bypass that SS filter, if it has one.

You will know soon enough if it has one and what frequency it is set to when you do the 1/12 octave FR sweep.

It will definitely help save your driver from bottoming out below the tuning point. It's very easy to bottom a ported sub with a tune in the high teens unless you have an SS filter.

Actually, I keep mine set to 20 Hz for really loud HT playback, and it starts to roll-off sharply around 19 Hz. If I plug a port, I set it to 16 Hz to capture the really deep stuff. For testing the FR, I set it to 12 Hz so it wouldn't interfere with my testing and I stayed flat to 11 Hz with one port plugged. But I would never run the SS filter at 12 Hz for loud playback - way too much risk of bottoming. I don't want to replace a $300 TC Sounds woofer anytime soon.

The Tempest does it's job through cone area, not excursion. It only has an XMax of 16 mm, so be careful on the SS stuff at high volumes. If the woofer starts farting or you hear a loud clack, then back off right away.

Finally, I thought the Avia disc required an 85 dB (not 75 dB) tone all around for calibration purposes? I know the VE disc is 75 dB.

Ron-P

AVIA does recommend 85db and it's fine when your working with pink noise, but the second you put in a movie, it's to loud. They do say that 85db is loud and 75db is more realistic.

Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Ron-P
AVIA does recommend 85db and it's fine when your working with pink noise, but the second you put in a movie, it's to loud. They do say that 85db is loud and 75db is more realistic.

Peace Out~:D

I just meant doesn't the AVIA disc require 85 dB on the test tones for proper speaker calibration? Or do they allow you to go with 75dB and still be OK?

These calibration discs are all mastered at different levels, and I didn't know if the AVIA disc would give you the same results at 75 dB as it does at 85 dB.

I used the now OOP VE disc and they were very specific about using 75 dB for the pink noise for their disc - no more, no less.

You should run the AVIA at 75 and then again at 85 and see if the relative differences between all your speakers change. In theory they shouldn't. But if they do, I'd stick with 85 dB for pink noise calibration.

Of course, once the system is properly calibrated with pink noise (at whatever SPL the disc requires), you can play your system at whatever volume you want. I agree - the 85 dB equivalent master volume setting is way too loud for HT playback.

Ron-P

I will do the 85db calibration tonight. You might be right about the 85db for pink noise calibration with AVIA, it's been awhile. Now I'm curious to see if there will be a difference in settings.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

"Bump"

Ron - any progress on calibration and FR sweep?

Ron-P

Played around with it a bit more last night, but got introuble...wife said the bass is too much

First off I re-calibrated the entire system at 85db using AVIA, only change is settings was the center channel dropped by 2 clicks, but at lower listening levels it needed to go back up where it was when I calibrated at 75db. So everything stayed the same there.

As for the sub. I backed off on the PA and dropped the Marantz LFE to -3 and began calibrating. I've got the sub right at about 85db's with the rest of the rig. After watching a few scenes (Saving PR - Titan A.E. - JPIII) I had to bump it up a touch, it was a little low. So, it is running about 5 db's hotter than the rest of the rig, it sounds (or should I say, feels) outstanding.

I played a few scenes at reference and the sub was reaching 120db (all though those scenes you listed above in SPR and Titan A.E.) without even breaking a sweat (that's when Linda came in and busted my chops).

Here's looking at more fun toinght as Linda is going to a Bible study from 7-9:30. Plenty of time to do some damage.


Peace Out~:D

Dr. Spec

"I played a few scenes at reference and the sub was reaching 120db (all through those scenes you listed above in SPR and Titan A.E.) without even breaking a sweat....."

Well there might be an echo in here but here goes....

OUT-F'ING-STANDING!!!!!!!!

Our work here is done. This thread and project was a LOT of fun and very satisfying.

Best Bang For The Buck Winner of 2003 goes to Ron-P: $38. World class bass on the cheap!

If you ever get the chance, please email me your FR sweep on Excel - I'd like to keep it for a reference.

Ed

Ron-P

Yes Doc, the goal has been achieved and I owe you a beer.....or two, for the help.

Another thing, I need to proof-read more, man my spelling is getting poor.

I'll post results as I run through more of those movies on your list.


Peace Out~:D